Zigbee, Z-Wave or X10?

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Zigbee, Z-Wave or X10?

Does anyone have any suggestions on which one (or a different one) would be good to get started with?  I currently don't use any of them.

I did look around the Homeseer site some and they seem to be an X10, Z-wave shop.  I have heard X10 can be frustrating to get everything working together.

Thanks,
fornold

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X10 is probably the least expensive, but it's been around the longest as well, so you'll probably be able to find the most devices for it, but as you've inferred, it's not been the smoothest ride for some.

No experience with Zigbee, but Z-Wave has the backing of some large partners, Logitech included. I've used Z-Wave with my Logitech 890, and it was a breeze to setup. So that's a perk for those & definitely gets my vote. The devices can be had for not too much as well.

Mike Garcen (shadymg) MissingRemote Editor-in-Chief Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP (formerly Media Center MVP) Twitter @mikegarcen MissingRemote on Facebook

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I was planning to go INSTEON, but there seems to be less options available and I've heard of some failures with switches. But it was supposed to be the affordable and improved replacement to X10 (and is still backwards compatible with it) so I may still give it a go once I buy a place. That's a ways away still though.

I'm contemplating Z-Wave still though, even if it's more pricey. Don't know much about Zigbee at all.

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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I've used X10 stuff for lighting and whatnot in the past and I never really had a problem with it, but I've heard that Z-Wave is a little more reliable.  Never used it though.

HTPC addict

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I've used X-10, had both good and not so good results.  An X-10 starter kit is  a nice inexpensive way to get started.  Then maybe move up to Insteon since it would be compatible.  I am not familiar with Zigbee or Z-Wave so I can't comment on those but I will need to look into them in the future, thanks

 

Unencumbered by the thought process!

 

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x-10 is old tech, it gets issues with noise on the power line which can be controled or not......

UPB (like x10 in that is it data over powerline)
Z-wave (wireless)

are both good options. 

Z-wave is always getting new vendors and new items and the guys over at homeseer have basically picked it as their protocol.....

UPB is great and they both have their +'s and -'s

Lutron RadioRA is another great wireless (more $$ than Zwave)
x10 and insteon are yesteryears tech and should not be used for new builds...

if you have a x10 setup and it works and you want to add to it, fine.... but it would not be wise to start a new system with it as there are much more reliable and better protocols available at a decent price point.

here is a great google doc that is on all HA protocols from caccontech....

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pq2S8fvu2JXEv1Ne9TIQhdA&hl=en

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Adidas4275 wrote:

x10 and insteon are yesteryears tech and should not be used for new builds...

I get that x10 is old and sucks, but what's wrong with insteon?

(FYI for people reading this that may not have noticed. This thread just got bumped from 2007)

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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Still wondering what's so "yesteryear" about insteon. It's an RF mesh technology much like Z-wave is. Is it just because it's backwards compatible with x10?

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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well insteon is not well supported, not many new devices and is more suseptable to interference.

z-wave and UPB are the 2 new and well supported DIY HA protocols

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jennyfur wrote:

(FYI for people reading this that may not have noticed. This thread just got bumped from 2007)

Just curious, why did this thread get a bump after nearly 3 years?

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Maybe he didn't notice the date or the warning when he went to respond?

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Skirge01 wrote:

Maybe he didn't notice the date or the warning when he went to respond?

He's the one that bumped it, I was only warning anyone who might respond to him after the bump since it was kinda random. I was kinda curious myself actually as to why he brought it back. I mean, I'm still interested in info, but had to put off any plans of doing anything for a couple years at least.

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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jennyfur wrote:

Skirge01 wrote:

Maybe he didn't notice the date or the warning when he went to respond?

He's the one that bumped it, I was only warning anyone who might respond to him after the bump since it was kinda random. I was kinda curious myself actually as to why he brought it back. I mean, I'm still interested in info, but had to put off any plans of doing anything for a couple years at least.

Yep.  That's who it was directed at and why I said he.  As in, Adidas4275.  ;D

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Doesn't mean it's not a good discussion to have. There is pretty much a neverending debate about which technology to adopt, as it's a pretty big tough to change your mind later.

I have some Insteon equipment, just the PC controller and a single lamp module to play with but I've never had the time to set it up.

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

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yeah, to be honest it was the 1st or 2nd post in this forum and when i first joined I was looking for threads to contribute to.  didnt notice it was an old thread.... especially that old and from the looks of things around here... we need more active threads.

really a 3 year old thread on the top page of the forum?

anyways the last update was just in response to the other responses.... it seemed like a discussion was actually  going on.

also I did not really notice that your post was a warning.... figured it was a FYI

anyways. lock it if you want. no big deal, just was trying to have some active threads and help figure out some answers

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Adidas4275 wrote:

yeah, to be honest it was the 1st or 2nd post in this forum and when i first joined I was looking for threads to contribute to.  didnt notice it was an old thread.... especially that old and from the looks of things around here... we need more active threads.

really a 3 year old thread on the top page of the forum?

anyways the last update was just in response to the other responses.... it seemed like a discussion was actually  going on.

also I did not really notice that your post was a warning.... figured it was a FYI

anyways. lock it if you want. no big deal, just was trying to have some active threads and help figure out some answers

Sorry, my friend.  We weren't actually being as cruel as it apparently sounded.  It was more curiosity and fun.  You certainly didn't do anything wrong.  Any relevant activity in the forums is good activity!

Also, the "warning" I was talking about wasn't jennyfur's comment.  That was definitely just meant as an FYI.  I was referencing something which I thought the forum did and (I just verified) it does not (generally):  warn users when they're responding to an old thread.  It only does that for threads in which you have previously responded, at which point, you'll see this:

Quote:
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

However, if it's your first time responding in a thread, the forum doesn't care how old the last response was.

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Wow, I've never gotten that warning before skirge... you sure it works? I know I've bumped really old threads before for some reason or another. I'll go test this theory on some other old thread right now.

We do have plenty of active threads though, the home automation forum is pretty much the only one that isn't active. Just not that many people on here have HA setups. We're more focused on the HTPC aspects as they pertain to our AV stuff.

Once I move out of this place (which won't be any time soon) I did want to set up some HA stuff though. Mostly just lighting control.

EDIT: yep, just tried bumping a couple old threads, one which I'd posted repeatedly in. No warnings.

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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jennyfur wrote:

Once I move out of this place (which won't be any time soon) I did want to set up some HA stuff though. Mostly just lighting control.

I also seem to forever be in this state....just as soon as I move...

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

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jennyfur wrote:

Wow, I've never gotten that warning before skirge... you sure it works? I know I've bumped really old threads before for some reason or another. I'll go test this theory on some other old thread right now.

EDIT: yep, just tried bumping a couple old threads, one which I'd posted repeatedly in. No warnings.

Was it more than 120 days old?  I verified this myself before I posted because I wanted to be sure I wasn't imagining things.  So, it definitely pops up under certain circumstances.  I actually had it pop up when I updated my client HTPC blog last month and that's where I remembered it from.

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Skirge01 wrote:

Was it more than 120 days old? 

I just bumped that xbox360 as an extender thread. Last post was December 12, 2008. Pretty sure that's over 120 days Wink

No warning. Perhaps it's only on threads you started yourself?

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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Completely unrelated to thread bumping, I just saw an iPhone commercial that features a home automation app, Schlage LiNK.  Its from the lock company Schlage, they have locks that can be locked or unlocked remotely.  The app also controls your thermostat ,Z-Wave enabled lights, and home video cameras.  Allows addition of up to 200 Z=Wave components.  Cost of $12.99 a month.
If there is a Z-Wave app, I would imagine there are also apps for the other technologies.  I don't think smart-phone integration was discussed in the old part of this thread, but it's one more thing to consider when choosing a HA system.

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Have we really gotten to that point?  Is it truly all that difficult to use a key?!?!  I realize this means the kids need to look away from the screen for a few seconds to insert the key, but hopefully they're brains haven't rotted enough yet that they can't operate a deadbolt without their iPhone.

What's next?  An attachment on the back of the iPhone that will hold the key and insert it for you?  (Shhhhh... I have a patent on that.)

Okay, all jokes aside, I went to their website and noted this:

Quote:
Send a command to your home using the password-protected Schlage LiNK online interface on your cell phone or computer

The command travels to your home via the Internet, using Secure Socket Layer (SSL) encryption technology, the same security used for online banking

Here comes the IT security side of me:  And we all know how secure our bank information is!  ;)  The mere fact that this information is stored in Schlage's system scares me.  This opens it up to hacking attempts because we know that every company uses adequate security measures for their customer and employee data, right?  Then, we're going to send this same information out of the internet and the airwaves in order to unlock the door?  This sounds very safe, as well.

I'll give them kudos for one thing:  They didn't use Bluetooth to transmit the signal locally.  Then again...

But, these two pieces give me concern:

Quote:
In the home, as long as the Schlage Bridge is used, the Schlage LiNK Solution is also fully encrypted to the Schlage Wireless Lock.

Quote:
All communications associated with the Schlage LiNK System are encrypted using industry standard products.

This is far too vague for my tastes.  While I highly doubt this is the case, the fact that they don't tell you what it uses means that they theoretically could be using WEP or even Bluetooth.  Both are "industry standard protocols".   :Smile

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Even though I'm not moving soon enough to implement anything in the near future, I've still kept a list of wants/needs and the hardware to fulfill those needs for quite some time. My main focus is lighting control. I'd like to be able to tie things into media center (64bit 7MC with an extender) and it would also be nice though unnecessary if I could access things from the web. I'd also like to be able to use a remote. Later on, perhaps adding a thermostat. That's about it though. Currently, the list only has this insteon package along with something like mHome software on it. I'd like to list a Z-Wave alternative, but have yet to find one. Anybody care to offer up any suggestions?

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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jennyfur wrote:

Even though I'm not moving soon enough to implement anything in the near future, I've still kept a list of wants/needs and the hardware to fulfill those needs for quite some time. My main focus is lighting control. I'd like to be able to tie things into media center (64bit 7MC with an extender) and it would also be nice though unnecessary if I could access things from the web. I'd also like to be able to use a remote. Later on, perhaps adding a thermostat. That's about it though. Currently, the list only has this insteon package along with something like mHome software on it. I'd like to list a Z-Wave alternative, but have yet to find one. Anybody care to offer up any suggestions?

MControl still has a few bugs w/ its x64 MCML app that haven't been fixed in over 9 months.  If you are looking for it to be your central home automation software and interface make sure to test it out first.

That said, I still like Insteon.  Quite a few products have been released for it in the last year.  In terms of reliability it is very dependent on "clean" power.  I had poor performance and a lot of RMAs until I installed a Home Surge Protector.  Since adding the Home Surge Protector I haven't "lost" a device in over a year and an extra benefit is that the lights no longer dim when simultaneously using the washer, dryer, vacuum, microwave, ...

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

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Mikinho wrote:

MControl still has a few bugs w/ its x64 MCML app that haven't been fixed in over 9 months.  If you are looking for it to be your central home automation software and interface make sure to test it out first.

By the time I set my stuff up, mControl v3 will be out so perhaps things will be different.

Mikinho wrote:
That said, I still like Insteon.  Quite a few products have been released for it in the last year.  In terms of reliability it is very dependent on "clean" power.  I had poor performance and a lot of RMAs until I installed a Home Surge Protector.  Since adding the Home Surge Protector I haven't "lost" a device in over a year and an extra benefit is that the lights no longer dim when simultaneously using the washer, dryer, vacuum, microwave, ...

Thanks. Yeah I don't even know if I can go the insteon route anyway since it requires a neutral wire and all the homes in my area are old and likely don't have one. And if they do, I can't imagine it being all that "clean." Hence why I asked for a Z-Wave alternative.

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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the schlinkage door locks are secured over SSL with AES pasword encryption.... at least they are with using with homeseer and its web server....

my homeseer site for controlling all my H/A equipment is SSL and password encrypted for remote and local use

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