WHS or Ubuntu server?

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WHS or Ubuntu server?

The subject says it all.  I tried WHS beta and it was ok.  The thing I liked was being able to log into it remotely and view pics etc from anywhere. 

Can I do all that WHS does with Ubuntu server?  What extra can I do?  Any guides or links that might help? (I am new to Ubuntu. Have a desktop running with Ubuntu but still learning)

Many thanks.

Nothing is more dangerous than a person who's title exceeds their intelect.

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phoneguyinpgh wrote:

The subject says it all.  I tried WHS beta and it was ok.  The thing I liked was being able to log into it remotely and view pics etc from anywhere. 

Can I do all that WHS does with Ubuntu server?  What extra can I do?  Any guides or links that might help? (I am new to Ubuntu. Have a desktop running with Ubuntu but still learning)

Many thanks.

Things I like about WHS an use on a daily basis.
Remote web page access.. You choose a domain name XXXX.homeserver.com and you are able to log into to view your documents via a web page and allows you to remote into computers on your network that have that capability (Vista Ultimate, XP Pro, Windows Server etc). It also allows you to remote into your home server.

Backup
WHS has a pretty comprehensive backup system. You are able to restore your computer with no problem.

Network Shares & Central storage - This speaks for itself

Lots of community add-ins to extend functionality. Visit wegotserved.co.uk for more info. HP has their own add-ins which extend functionality as well. Photo sharing and DLNA functionality come to mind.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/windowshomeserver/ad...

John should step in and talk about the Linux stuff a bit. Mike will likely see this and add his thoughts.

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Thanks for the link Alan.  I will wait to see what the Linux gurus have to offer and make a decision.  I already know to mount windows shares on my linux box.  Wondering if I can still use those share to back up my linux box?

Nothing is more dangerous than a person who's title exceeds their intelect.

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I guess it's up to me to wave the Linux flag.   ;D

While I haven't used Ubuntu Server, most Linux distros pull from the same general code set, so I'll answer accordingly.

Network Shares & Central Storage


[/hr]
Depending on your main needs, there are distros that are dedicated to doing this functionality right out of the box.  For instance, FreeNAS (technically not Linux, but FreeBSD) is a very flexible NAS OS that can run on just about anything, doesn't require a keyboard/mouse/monitor, and is configured via web pages.

Ubuntu Server (or any other distro) has this functionality built in as well.  Some are configured a little easier than others (think GUI clicking rather than console typing) so you will want to do a little HOWTO guide browsing before diving in.

Also, it is possible to add an anti-virus program on the server to scan the shared files if you require that extra protection.  The viruses won't affect Linux, but they may can still cause problems for any connected Windows systems.

Backups


[/hr]
There are several ways to crack this nut, but probably the best free solution is Bacula.  This is included in Ubuntu Server and has clients for just about all OS's.

Remote Access


[/hr]
As I covered in my VNC and SSH guides, it is possible to get access to both a GUI and command prompt remotely and securely in any Linux OS.  You can also use this box to "tunnel" a remote GUI session to another Windows box on your home network completely encrypted.

To expand this further, remotely accessing files from the home network securely is also just a small extension to the above configuration.

Conclusion


[/hr]
There is essentially nothing that you can't do with the Linux OS assuming you are willing to do a little reading prior.  Most tasks are built in, but others require a quick package install and a skim of a HOWTO doc.  I picked the Linux route because I have a lot of Linux friendly hardware laying around (ie: Linux can run on most "junk" hardware) and I know that when I'm done configuring it, I can put it to work in my office closet and not have to worry about it randomly locking up or requiring regular maintenance.

I've gone the CentOS distro route because I'm more familiar with RedHat than any other, it's an enterprise class OS, and because there are piles of HOWTOs available on just about any subject.  I've got a few guides on installation, initial configuration, and even running from a flash drive.  Heck, mine also pulls SageTV server duty on the side.

Famous Last Words - "I am new to Linux, but my technical background should make this new adventure go smoothly."

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I'm running a WHS box now and love it.  It's one of those things that you set up and forget about it.  Remember the phrase, "It just works"?  That definitely applies here.  Even for a person who likes to tinker--a lot--I rarely have a need to log into the server itself or make any changes to it, unless I've made a hardware change, such as adding a tuner.  I'm still having some issues with remote access to my computers, but that's due to an issue I'm having with my IPCop firewall.

My analysis of the comparison would go like this:

If you're looking for something that's easy as cake to set up, low maintenance, with a low learning curve, go WHS.

If you want something you can do a lot of playing with and don't mind taking the time to search, read, and learn, then go with Linux.

Server: WHS, SuperMicro dual Xeon X7DWE, 1 x Xeon L5410, Thermalright HR-01, 4GB Crucial ECC, 8 port PCI-X SATA, 4 port RocketRAID 2300, 5x1 PortMultiplier, Corsair HX1000W PSU, Lian-Li PC343B case [blog]
Storage:
2 x Addonics 5-in-3 bays, 13TB
Client:
SageTV 7, Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion [blog]
Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (serial control), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT

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phoneguyinpgh wrote:

Thanks for the link Alan.   I will wait to see what the Linux gurus have to offer and make a decision.  I already know to mount windows shares on my linux box.  Wondering if I can still use those share to back up my linux box?

You can do that or you can just install a small client in Windows which talks directly to the backup software running on the Linux server.  Route #2 is probably easier to maintain down the road.

Famous Last Words - "I am new to Linux, but my technical background should make this new adventure go smoothly."

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I have a question; currently I'm using a XP Pro system setup for file sharing as my "server," I've got two 750 gig HDDs loaded with stuff that I don't want to lose but I want to move the system over to Ubuntu Server.

Can I run Ubuntu Server with my NTSF formatted HDDs and keep all my data?

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Crim wrote:

I have a question; currently I'm using a XP Pro system setup for file sharing as my "server," I've got two 750 gig HDDs loaded with stuff that I don't want to lose but I want to move the system over to Ubuntu Server.

Can I run Ubuntu Server with my NTSF formatted HDDs and keep all my data?

Yes, Linux can read and write to NTFS partitions without issue.  I have a couple external USB drives connected to my server partitioned in that fashion that I use for backup purposes.  In case of a server hardware failure, they can be connected to any Windows box to have files restored.

If you are asking whether it is possible to install Ubuntu onto a NTFS partition, then the answer is still yes (almost everything is always possible  Wink ), but not without much ado.  There are several journaling features included in native Linux file systems that would be more appropriate for a server OS partition.

Famous Last Words - "I am new to Linux, but my technical background should make this new adventure go smoothly."

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Crim wrote:

I have a question; currently I'm using a XP Pro system setup for file sharing as my "server," I've got two 750 gig HDDs loaded with stuff that I don't want to lose but I want to move the system over to Ubuntu Server.

Can I run Ubuntu Server with my NTSF formatted HDDs and keep all my data?

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemsExplained

Dude...  How old IS this FusionHDTV3 ???

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Whoa, thats pretty cool. I wasn't asking about directly installing it on an NTSF formatted drive but that is very interesting.

My server has three drives in it: One OS drive and two 750 gig HDDs used for storage. What I'd like to do is reformat and install Ubuntu onto the OS drive (freeing up a copy of Win in the process) and leave my two 750 giggers intaked which sounds like it's very possible. Smile

John wrote:

Crim wrote:

I have a question; currently I'm using a XP Pro system setup for file sharing as my "server," I've got two 750 gig HDDs loaded with stuff that I don't want to lose but I want to move the system over to Ubuntu Server.

Can I run Ubuntu Server with my NTSF formatted HDDs and keep all my data?

Yes, Linux can read and write to NTFS partitions without issue.  I have a couple external USB drives connected to my server partitioned in that fashion that I use for backup purposes.  In case of a server hardware failure, they can be connected to any Windows box to have files restored.

If you are asking whether it is possible to install Ubuntu onto a NTFS partition, then the answer is still yes (almost everything is always possible  Wink ), but not without much ado.  There are several journaling features included in native Linux file systems that would be more appropriate for a server OS partition.

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I've been playing around with a trial version of WHS and the wife really likes it.  However, I'm always open for "free" options Smile

Here are a couple things that my wife (and myself) like about WHS, so I'm curious if Linux can do the same...

1) Remote access to files.  This has proved very handy for my wife.  We copied all our photos to it and I just have to set up users and passwords and now her parents can access them, my family can access them, the parents of my daughter's playgroup can access them (and upload photos).  Don't have to mess with Flickr, Photoworks, or other web-based photo storage areas.  I can also access all my documents from work, while traveling, etc.

2) Drive pool.  I really like being able to set up file redundancy per folder instead of having to use a full RAID setup.  I'm sure there are automated file-copy options that could be done in Linux to achieve the same results, right?

3) SageTV.  Since I'm only running a trial at the moment I haven't moved my SageTV server to WHS, but when I make a decision it has to support SageTV.  The downside for Linux is that I would have to purchase a new SageTV license, while my understanding is that my current Windows-based license can be used to install the WHS version.  With that in mind, WHS for $100 or SageTV for $70 (if I go Linux).

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Crim wrote:

Whoa, thats pretty cool. I wasn't asking about directly installing it on an NTSF formatted drive but that is very interesting.

My server has three drives in it: One OS drive and two 750 gig HDDs used for storage. What I'd like to do is reformat and install Ubuntu onto the OS drive (freeing up a copy of Win in the process) and leave my two 750 giggers intaked which sounds like it's very possible. Smile

Yup.  That is a pretty standard request and can be done with little effort.

Famous Last Words - "I am new to Linux, but my technical background should make this new adventure go smoothly."

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Quote:
1) Remote access to files.  This has proved very handy for my wife.  We copied all our photos to it and I just have to set up users and passwords and now her parents can access them, my family can access them, the parents of my daughter's playgroup can access them (and upload photos).  Don't have to mess with Flickr, Photoworks, or other web-based photo storage areas.  I can also access all my documents from work, while traveling, etc.

A few questions first.  I assume that WHS does this over a web server?  If so, Linux can do very similar functionality with it's web server.  One program that comes to mind is Coppermine.

Standard files can be accessed using a program like WinSCP.  It acts just like any FTP client, but the files are encrypted through a SSH tunnel.

Quote:
2) Drive pool.  I really like being able to set up file redundancy per folder instead of having to use a full RAID setup.  I'm sure there are automated file-copy options that could be done in Linux to achieve the same results, right?

There is a program called "rsync" that can be used to mirror folders or entire drives.  All you need to do is make a one line script that runs however often you want to sync things up.  I've used this to do backups of remote servers since it can be run over a SSH tunnel.

Quote:
3) SageTV.  Since I'm only running a trial at the moment I haven't moved my SageTV server to WHS, but when I make a decision it has to support SageTV.  The downside for Linux is that I would have to purchase a new SageTV license, while my understanding is that my current Windows-based license can be used to install the WHS version.  With that in mind, WHS for $100 or SageTV for $70 (if I go Linux).

Very true.  A user migrating from a Windows to a Linux SageTV server would need an additional Linux license.  However, you would then have a "free" Windows license to use for a frontend.

Famous Last Words - "I am new to Linux, but my technical background should make this new adventure go smoothly."

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Hmm, looks like I need to play around with Linux some more  Wink

Coppermine looks pretty cool!  Not sure I like the idea of messing with WinSCP (or more appropriately teaching the wife to use it).  I would need something that allows me to download files just from a simple web interface (documents, videos, software, etc.).

Any suggestions for a Distro that would have a lot of whe WHS features built in?  Automatically setup a basic webpage for viewing/downloading/uploading files?  The file duplication thing is easy enough if it is just one line per folder.  Bacula sounds like that should take care of the PC backups (as long as it will wake the clients up from suspend/sleep).

I don't mind doing a little tinkering, but sometimes is seems like it takes a lot of research/learning/tinkering to do relatively simple things in Linux compared to Windows.  Just playing around with Ubuntu in VirtualBox (a virtual machine program) took a couple hours to get the system to install the virtual system additions and get it configured to play Divx/AVI/MPEG files.  Windows you just double-click the EXE file for the additions and download and install CCCP (for example) and your done.

I'm definitely not afraid of learning, I just don't want to have to spend all my time tinkering.  That is one of the reasons I'm getting rid of my SageTV clients and moving to extenders Smile

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farscapesg1 wrote:

Hmm, looks like I need to play around with Linux some more  Wink

Coppermine looks pretty cool!  Not sure I like the idea of messing with WinSCP (or more appropriately teaching the wife to use it).  I would need something that allows me to download files just from a simple web interface (documents, videos, software, etc.).

Any suggestions for a Distro that would have a lot of whe WHS features built in?  Automatically setup a basic webpage for viewing/downloading/uploading files?  The file duplication thing is easy enough if it is just one line per folder.  Bacula sounds like that should take care of the PC backups (as long as it will wake the clients up from suspend/sleep).

I don't mind doing a little tinkering, but sometimes is seems like it takes a lot of research/learning/tinkering to do relatively simple things in Linux compared to Windows.  Just playing around with Ubuntu in VirtualBox (a virtual machine program) took a couple hours to get the system to install the virtual system additions and get it configured to play Divx/AVI/MPEG files.  Windows you just double-click the EXE file for the additions and download and install CCCP (for example) and your done.

I'm definitely not afraid of learning, I just don't want to have to spend all my time tinkering.  That is one of the reasons I'm getting rid of my SageTV clients and moving to extenders Smile

I'll have to research to see if there are any drop in solutions to do the remote picture/file thing as part of a distro.  Keep in mind that this is a new OS.  You would find some tasks in Windows a bit daunting if we weren't all trained on it from birth.  :)  If you are interested in trying it, take it one step at a time.  Attempting to absorb it all at once might just serve to frustrate you.

Famous Last Words - "I am new to Linux, but my technical background should make this new adventure go smoothly."

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Quick WHS question - will it run on a Athlon 64 2400+ (forget the actual speed) mobile processer (socket A)?  I've got a motherboard/cpu from my first HTPC build, and 2 GB of ram for it.  I also have the rest of the parts to put a computer together (hard drive, video card, dvd-burner, case/ps).  I don't think I'd be doing any Sage server duties on it (would probaby go to a quad core cpu for that) but am looking for a backup solution.

Thanks,
Mike

PS How does running Sage server on WHS work?

Standing on the Starboard side of the Red Line.

MSI K9N Platinum | AMD A64 X2 4850e 2.5GHz | ATI HD 4670 | 3GB DDR2 800 | Uneed X11 rev. 1 case w/ VFD&IR & rev. 2 HD cage | Cosair 520W PS | Mitsumi floppy w/ USB 2.0 card reader built in | Seagate 160GB (OS/docs); WD GP 750GB (videos), WD GP 1TB (videos) | LG GGC-H20L BD/HD player/DVD Burner | PVR-500 MCE | DVICO FusionHDTV Lite | Vbox Cat's Eye 150 | M780 | XP Pro w/ SP2 | SageTV 6.6.2 | SageMC 6.3.8a | Catalyst 10.6 driver | purevideo decoder 1.02-223 | Samsung LN46C630 46" LCD | Pioneer Elite VSK-21TXH receiver (HDMI to receiver to TV)

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xjboonie wrote:

Quick WHS question - will it run on a Athlon 64 2400+ (forget the actual speed) mobile processer (socket A)?  I've got a motherboard/cpu from my first HTPC build, and 2 GB of ram for it.  I also have the rest of the parts to put a computer together (hard drive, video card, dvd-burner, case/ps).  I don't think I'd be doing any Sage server duties on it (would probaby go to a quad core cpu for that) but am looking for a backup solution.

Thanks,
Mike

PS How does running Sage server on WHS work?

I don't know about WHS, but I'm using this exact setup to do Sage server duties in CentOS, so I'd think it might be possible in WHS.

Famous Last Words - "I am new to Linux, but my technical background should make this new adventure go smoothly."

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WHS is made to run on low spec hardware. The first HP servers were celerons...

Sage on WHS is the same as any other windows version. It runs as a service and you install the tuners.

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Gotta add that WHS is a snap to set up and maintain.   

Kryspy

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xjboonie wrote:

Quick WHS question - will it run on a Athlon 64 2400+ (forget the actual speed) mobile processer (socket A)?  I've got a motherboard/cpu from my first HTPC build, and 2 GB of ram for it.  I also have the rest of the parts to put a computer together (hard drive, video card, dvd-burner, case/ps).

Easily.  I'm also using my old HTPC hardware for my WHS. 
-Athlon XP 2500+ (Barton)
-Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe mobo (onboard sound and Gigabit ethernet)
-2GB PC3200 DDR
-Radeon 9600XT (not from HTPC, but it's low power and running passively)
-120GB WD Caviar
-2x80GB Maxtor DM9
-2x500GB WD GreenPower

I just put it inside my old SLK3000B and it's running very well (42C CPU, 27C System).  It performs as a WHS very well; I have no problems running it as a media/file server or a backup server. 

At it's heart WHS is just Win2003, which in turn, is WinXP on steroids.  Just make sure you have enough RAM (you do) and you're good to go.

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Boy...  I'm glad I opened this thread.  Keep the comments coming.

A question for John;  The drive pool in WHS is rather unique.  It doesn't matter what type or size drive you install, it just see all of them as storage (or a pool of storage).  When you create a folder and want it mirrored or protected, the OS decides where to put the files so that there are 2 copies somewhere in the storage pool (preferably on different drives).  Does Linux do something like that natively or is there a drop-in app capable of doing something like that?

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The drive pooling is essentially JBOD with some mirroring ability which I'm sure (John could probably explain it) is very possible under Linux.

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phoneguyinpgh wrote:

A question for John;  The drive pool in WHS is rather unique.  It doesn't matter what type or size drive you install, it just see all of them as storage (or a pool of storage).  When you create a folder and want it mirrored or protected, the OS decides where to put the files so that there are 2 copies somewhere in the storage pool (preferably on different drives).  Does Linux do something like that natively or is there a drop-in app capable of doing something like that?

Yes, there is an equivalent to this in Linux-land.  However, there isn't a single shiny button that you click to make it happen.  You need to choose which drives you want to put in a JBOD array and configure the one line script which performs the mirroring action based on what you want to do.

There are pluses and minuses to this.  For one, the set up isn't as "user friendly".  On the other hand, you actually know which drives things are mirrored on and how often / when it occurs.

Just about any combination of RAID, LVM , JBOD, and manual mirror can be combined to meet your specific requirements.  Many people frown on software RAID methods.  I prefer it because it is not tied to specific hardware.  If my MB "toasts", I can just yank the drives and connect them to a new MB and I'm up and running in minutes.

Famous Last Words - "I am new to Linux, but my technical background should make this new adventure go smoothly."

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Thanks John, I will look @ the forums to see if & how that set up works.

Now a question for Alan;  if I go the WHS route, which of these is the one I'm looking for???

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116395
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116550

Nothing is more dangerous than a person who's title exceeds their intelect.

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xjboonie wrote:

Quick WHS question - will it run on a Athlon 64 2400+ (forget the actual speed) mobile processer (socket A)?  I've got a motherboard/cpu from my first HTPC build, and 2 GB of ram for it.  I also have the rest of the parts to put a computer together (hard drive, video card, dvd-burner, case/ps).  I don't think I'd be doing any Sage server duties on it (would probaby go to a quad core cpu for that) but am looking for a backup solution.

I would think that your system specs would be just fine.  I run my WHS system on a Via C7-D (1.5GHz) processor, 1GB of RAM, and all the Hard Drives I could stuff in the case (4 PATA, and 2 SATA) drives... with just over 1TB of data storage.

For a while I was even running a Virtual machine session with a linux router distro (Smoothwall) on my WHS system.  But there were some instabilities there, and ended up taking that off and dedicating an old Pentium 3 system to running the linux router.

WHS does exactly what it claims to do, and there are some great plug-ins to fill some of the gaps.  Though, I do wish I had gone with a linux home server as I would have a lot more flexibility.  But... at the same time, sometimes it's better to have a system "just work", so you don't have to tinker with it endlessly.  I tend to do that with my Vista Media Center system... and usually end up breaking something.  But the nice thing about having WHS, is I when I do break my VMC system, I just pop in the Restore CD, and I go back to last-night's backup!

I do have a question for the Linux gurus in attendance...

Does Bacula or any other automated backup application for Linux have something similar to WHS's Single Instance Storage, where if multiple machines have the same file, it only saves one instance?  This saves me a whole lot of disc space when multiple systems have the same DLLs and application files, etc.

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phoneguyinpgh wrote:

Thanks John, I will look @ the forums to see if & how that set up works.

Now a question for Alan;  if I go the WHS route, which of these is the one I'm looking for???

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116395
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116550

It's the same thing except: 1.) Has a higher price tag and 2.) the other includes Powerpack which is sort of like SP1 for it.

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The cheaper one Smile

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Currently I'm running a Freenas machine with a gig of ram in it; nothing special.  Its been running with no problems at all for 6 months straight lol.  However one time windows screwed up my file library somehow through the shared folders.  I believe it was windows fault and had nothing to do with the FreeNas Box.  Honestly I was a bit skeptical at first putting important information onto the NAS Box.  But now I feel like it would take care of anything I put on it without a problem.  It transfers files very quickly.  I can play movies, music, view photos, open documents quickly with no problems at all.  I have not tried streaming a DVD yet, but I'm sure that will come in time.  For a Free Solution to network storage FreeNas is the way to go IMHO.  There was some problems with initial set up with the box but I eventually got them all sorted out and up and running.  Freenas has a built in FTP unfortunately  I have not gotten that to work completely.  Which I'm most likely doing something wrong on my end of things.  It has SSH which I have not tinkered with yet.  Also if you are running your own Windows Server and have user accounts set up etc...this will work great with your security settings as well.  I really cant say anything bad about Freenas. 

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