Well, I thought that this was big news!

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LowTech's picture
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Well, I thought that this was big news!

Now don’t get me wrong.  I love new tech.  Sometimes, I just can’t get it to work…

…but that’s just me.

So I see this article about XP SP3 being quietly field tested by 15000 willing crash test dummies (I use that term endearingly BTW).  In the article it claims that test show a 10% improvement performance boost for MS Office apps running under XP SP3.  Nice.  Meanwhile, SP1 for Vista appears to offer little if any performance boost for the new OS.  Doh!

Now don’t get me wrong.  I love new tech.  Sometimes, I just don’t get the point…

…but that’s just me.

I know that the migration to Vista is supposed to be inevitable and I really, really thought that after SP1 comes out that most, if not all driver issues would be resolved and then I could begin researching all of the goodies for a new PC build.  But I find me asking myself one question…”is it worth it to spend all that money for state-of-the-moment hardware in order to have my new OS perform at a relative speed comparable to my 4 year old single core PC?”  OK, maybe not that bad, but maybe I should consider the new build around XP?  Considering the release of SP3 maybe the old OS is destined to hang around a little longer than anticipated (like it hasn’t already, right?).  MS is not only keeping XP on life support but is actually improving it!  I don’t get it!  XP appears to be a “dead man walking”…and yet?!

Now don’t get me wrong.  I love new tech.  Sometimes, I just get this feeling that something is not quite right…

…but that’s just me.

Could it be that MS taken Vista down a similar path (so to speak) that Intel took with the P4?  Could it be that maybe MS has already seen the wall that Vista is going to hit?  I’m not normally a conspiracy theorist or anything like that but sometimes things happen that make you go, hmmm.  Another article that I read on the subject (which I cannot find to link to right now) hinted that along with all of the bug fixes/patches that SP3 will incorporate it would also add a few general performance improvements as well.  What if DirectX 10 support was included?  What would you say to that?  I haven’t actually seen that DirectX 10 will be offered for XP but I can dream can’t I?  MS has already extended support for XP for another five years and will continue to offer it for sale until June ’08. 

On one hand what’s not to like about XP? (That’s a rhetorical question, BTW)  Anyone from a preschooler to an octogenarian is familiar with it and can use it.  Hackers and malware scripters love it.  A whole cottage industry is dependent on XP’s flaws and other vulnerabilities for their continued existence.  The bottom line is that it works quite well for most purposes.  On the other hand, it can’t last forever.

Now don’t get me wrong.  I love new tech.  Sometimes, I just think that someone put lipstick on a pig and called it something else…

…but that’s just me.

I don’t necessarily resist new stuff, however, I patiently waited for a year after XP came out before I jumped in, head first, after the release of SP1 in September ’02 and I have never looked back.  I thought I would do the same with Vista but, if you’re still with me, you can see that I have my doubts.  If Vista were truly a whole new OS then why can it be installed over XP with and upgrade disc?  That’s the pig with the lipstick right there, IMO. 

What I’d love to see is for MS to make XP open source.  However, I doubt we’ll ever see that day.  But I digress…

I believe that the news concerning XP SP3 maybe a little bigger than the coverage it got.  I believe that Vista has fallen way short of its expectations and promised performance.  Does Vista really give you $200 worth of improvements and performance gains over XP?  I doubt it.  I don’t want to be anti-Vista but from what little I’ve messed around with a Vista PC I fail to see any big reason to switch at this time.  I’ll make a prediction here, I’ll bet that come June ’08 we’ll see another extension of XP disc sales and support from MS because there are going to be others who will also fail to see gains from the “upgrade” to Vista.  In order to keep users from jumping to Apple or any of the various Linux distros MS will need to do something in order to keep the faithful, faithful.  By continuing to support and improve upon XP MS might just be doing what they need to do until they release a truly fast and robust OS to replace XP and Vista. 

Now don’t get me wrong.  I love new tech.  Sometimes, I just have a hard time seeing it…

…but that’s just me.

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Oh, I think XP has been around LONG enough for the MS coders to FINALLY really understand it.  Now they're actually able to re-write the code with simplicity, speed and elegance in mind.

Once Vista has been here for 7 or 8 years they should be able to do the same for it...

Dude...  How old IS this FusionHDTV3 ???

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Joined: 30 Sep 2006

we are all supposed to swallow the hype those corporate monkeys keep dishing at us.  i am passing the "new" tech this year, vista can wait, xp is fine for everything i am doing, in fact i just reactivated my shelved copy of mce-xp and forsee at least a year of use with its' functionality, my "new tech" focus is on high capacity storage for now and revamping an old socket 939 mobo, yes you can still get cpu and ram for those.  spending hundreds of dollars to get a slightly better benchmark doesn't seem to be quite worth all of the muddling anymore.

switched to a PS3-BD Remote, and now IT is missing!!!

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LowTech wrote:

If Vista were truly a whole new OS then why can it be installed over XP with and upgrade disc?  That’s the pig with the lipstick right there, IMO. 

That's a faux pas by Microsoft.  You can actually install the Vista upgrade on a clean, formatted disk.  But then you have to install it again because it's an upgrade.

The upgrade media clearly states "For users running Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional, Windows XP, or Windows Vista."

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LowTech wrote:

I know that the migration to Vista is supposed to be inevitable and I really, really thought that after SP1 comes out that most, if not all driver issues would be resolved and then I could begin researching all of the goodies for a new PC build.  But I find me asking myself one question…”is it worth it to spend all that money for state-of-the-moment hardware in order to have my new OS perform at a relative speed comparable to my 4 year old single core PC?”

Thankfully in my case, Vista is not the driving factor in my need to upgrade. Between gaming and running all the Adobe products I'd need for work, my old system just doesn't cut it anymore. So since I'm upgrading anyway, figure I might as well grab a shiny new OS while I'm at it (er, well I got it for free hehe). I switched to XP right when it first came out and it was a nightmare too... no drivers for half my hardware, tons of software incompatibilities... so it's not like problems with a new OS are that big a deal to me anymore since it seems to be inevitable with every release. Yeah I know I shouldn't think like that, but it seems to be reality with all software these days, not just OS. I can't remember the last game I bought that wasn't patched within a week of release. And with Vista, I've waited almost a full year to jump in, instead of only a couple weeks like with XP. I'm not anticipating much in the way of problems at this point. Plus I'm really looking forward to checking out Vista Media Center. After upgrading my mother's PC to XP last year, I realized what a big difference in hardware requirements it had over previous versions as well. Her machine ended up nearly unusable until I gave her some more RAM. I guess people forget all the hassles they had the last time a new OS came out just because there's been so much time in between them. Took XP a long time to get where it is right now. Vista will go through the same process.

LowTech wrote:
I believe that Vista has fallen way short of its expectations and promised performance.  Does Vista really give you $200 worth of improvements and performance gains over XP?  I doubt it.

Hmm, I must have missed out on all the hype, cuz I don't recall ever hearing anything about performance gains. All the features I was hearing about or was looking forward to were in terms of features and capabilities (some of which admittedly ended up removed from the final version). Sure performance would have been icing on the cake, but I never saw anything that promised it so it's not like I could miss something I never expected to have. And I expected system requirements to be higher, just as they've always been with each new release.

Blue wrote:

LowTech wrote:

If Vista were truly a whole new OS then why can it be installed over XP with and upgrade disc?  That’s the pig with the lipstick right there, IMO.

That's a faux pas by Microsoft.  You can actually install the Vista upgrade on a clean, formatted disk.  But then you have to install it again because it's an upgrade.

The upgrade media clearly states "For users running Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional, Windows XP, or Windows Vista."

Yeah, back when I was still planning on buying Vista, I was going to get the upgrade and use it to do a full install on a bare formatted drive. Saves $$ and is quite easy.  So for anybody that didn't already know how to and wants to do it, directions are easily found on the web at tons of sites.

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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jennyfur wrote:

LowTech wrote:
I believe that Vista has fallen way short of its expectations and promised performance.  Does Vista really give you $200 worth of improvements and performance gains over XP?  I doubt it.

Hmm, I must have missed out on all the hype, cuz I don't recall ever hearing anything about performance gains. All the features I was hearing about or was looking forward to were in terms of features and capabilities (some of which admittedly ended up removed from the final version). Sure performance would have been icing on the cake, but I never saw anything that promised it so it's not like I could miss something I never expected to have. And I expected system requirements to be higher, just as they've always been with each new release.

Off the top of my head: DX10. DX10 was suppose to be "more efficient" then DX9 and was suppose to offer a speed boost for games. Instead enabling DX10 seems to do more harm with a 45% FPS drop for slightly prettier graphics then DX9. To say the performance hit is "disappointing" would be an understatement.

Oh, and AA being broken in many DX10 games. Seriously, WTF. A "next gen" OS and something as commonplace as AA (nowadays) doesn't work?!

Anyways, I am running Vista HP on my HTPC but I'm really thinking hard about going back to XP with SageTV and upgrading my 3200+ A64 to a X2 3800+ or so (whatever X2 s939 that I can find cheap) cause on it Vista feels really slow now. Once I had it updated and codecs installed and everything the system began to feel a bit slow (much slower then my XP system) but it worked and I was happy with it. After a while I began to see issues here and there; at one point it totally lost my network and it was a major PITA finding my way around Vista in order to fix it.

Now I'm at the point were I want to overhaul my XP system and I'm trying to decide on if I want to continue using XP (for things like gaming) or move on to Vista and put my copy of XP MCE onto another system. Honestly, this should be a no brainer. Any new OS should have plenty of new features/improvements that anyone doing the same thing I am should be able to go with it even if it has a few blemishes but Vista is different. Using brand new equipment (quad core, 8500GT or a 3870/50) I don't think it's going to feel as fast as it would if I had used XP based on my experience.

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Ahh, yeah DX10. I thought you were talking about the speed of the OS in general (in terms of handling applications, allocating memory, UI, etc). Definitely if you just mean DX10 than that's a big one... but only for gaming. Luckily, games all still support DX9. And perhaps with some new video card drivers, DX10 performance will improve somewhat eventually. Cuz lord knows it can't get any worse.  Sad

I've got a 3200+ A64 as well. Still trying to decide what to do with it once my upgrade is finished over the holidays. Wherever it ends up, it will still be running on XP though.

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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jennyfur wrote:

LowTech wrote:
I believe that Vista has fallen way short of its expectations and promised performance.  Does Vista really give you $200 worth of improvements and performance gains over XP?  I doubt it.

Hmm, I must have missed out on all the hype, cuz I don't recall ever hearing anything about performance gains. All the features I was hearing about or was looking forward to were in terms of features and capabilities (some of which admittedly ended up removed from the final version). Sure performance would have been icing on the cake, but I never saw anything that promised it so it's not like I could miss something I never expected to have. And I expected system requirements to be higher, just as they've always been with each new release.

Good point.  Truth be known I can’t point to any specific claims that MS might have made indicating any overall performance gains over the old OS.

However I know that I wasn’t alone in the belief that the new OS would offer overall performance gains over XP.  Furthermore I don’t believe that it is unreasonable to assume that the new product would offer performance improvements over the old. Oh well, you know what they say; “never assume”.   

I used to kid around and say that Vista was actually going to be XP SP3 with a flashy new name.  Now I see what’s really going on up in Redmond, they had to do something with all of those unsold copies of ME.

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jennyfur wrote:

I switched to XP right when it first came out and it was a nightmare too... no drivers for half my hardware, tons of software incompatibilities... so it's not like problems with a new OS are that big a deal to me anymore since it seems to be inevitable with every release.

Here's where I have to "part ways"...  Vista has been rock-solid on my hardware - since "Pre-RC1"...  (That's WELL over a year now!)  The only drivers I ever had problems with:  a.  the FusionHDTV drivers in the Vista Beta's wouldn't allow 2 PCI tuners in the same box (fixed way before retail release2. the ADI1986a (SoundMax) onboard sound codec that ASUS uses on many of their MB's (Vista's generic HD audio driver sort of makes it work)

I had a very good experience with MCE 2005 on my HTPC.  I have to say my Vista experience has been excellent - better in many ways than MCE... 

I have MORE 3rd party software installed on 64-bit Vista than I could ever get on my MCE install.  I had to keep my MCE 2005 install "minimalist" because I'd install software and it'd end up screwing up Media Center or video or sound or make MCE unstable.  The ONLY software I haven't been able to install reliably is iTunes!  It works great on my other 2 Vista (32-bit) installs though.

I have MORE Games installed on 64-bit Vista than I ever had on MCE!  Battlefield 2142, Crysis, Shadowrun, Halo 2, Supreme Commander, Flight Sim X, Company of Heroes, F.E.A.R..

I did update my hardware: 
from a 939 A64 3000+ to a 939 A64 x2 4200+
from 1GB of Dual Channel DDR to 2GB of Dual Channel DDR
The 8600GTS?  That was just for FUN!!!
eveything else is the same...

Dude...  How old IS this FusionHDTV3 ???

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Hey now, no parting ways... I was agreeing with you! I have plenty of friends who are running Vista and love it. No problems. And I'm not anticipating problems when I finally install my copy once my upgrade is finished. Looking forward to it actually. In fact, the hardware is the only reason I haven't already installed Vista... I wasn't waiting for service pack 1 or anything like that. I was just broke and lazy.  Smile

I'll be going from a 939 A64 3200+ to a C2D E6750. From 1gb DDR to 2gb DDR2. And onboard 6150 (ugh! ouch!) to an 8800GT if I could just find one in stock already!! In the meantime I've been borrowing a friend's 7600GS just so I can actually run games made in the last year hehe.

7MC - Hauppauge WinTV-DCR-2650 - Avermedia M780 - Dvico Fusion HDTV7 - Terk HDTVa - Xbox 360 S - Logitech Harmony 650 - Panasonic V10 - Onkyo HT-RC160

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