To Raid or Not to Raid

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Fri, 02/02/2007 - 11:00am

orto

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Joined: 2 Oct 2006

To Raid or Not to Raid

I´m building an htpc in an antec fusion case and I am wondering what I should do about Raid.

I have 2 x 400 gb samsung disks that are going into the machine.
I was going to split one of the disks into two partitions, 50gb for Windows XP os and 350gb for media. Then I would just create a single partition for the 2nd one also for media.

My question is should I think things differently and choose a raid setup? What are the benefits?
I don´t want to loose storage space for backup reasons as I will manually backup the files that I need to own to an external hdd.

Fri, 02/02/2007 - 11:12am

George Schmauch

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Joined: 21 Dec 2006

For what reasons did you begin to consider raid? At the end-user level, raid is generally used for two things: extra speed (although, this is debatable) and data redundancy. If the computer's use is for an HTPC, you should be looking for reliability, not speed (striping, overclocking, etc.).

First off, I would highly recommend not putting your OS or applications on a raid array. It makes recoveries and upgrades much more difficult and sometimes impossible, especially if you're going to use motherboard-based raid.

Second, if you intend to back things up yourself then you probably don't even need raid. The "hassle" will outweigh the benefits.

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Fri, 02/02/2007 - 11:29am

orto

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Joined: 2 Oct 2006

It was mainly out of curiousity that I started to consider raid.
I understand the benefits of e.g. Raid 5 in a media server but was curious if there was maybe a raid configuration that I would benefit from in an htpc. I´ve actually never even thought about it before for a htpc machine and I´ve built several htpc machines.

Fri, 02/02/2007 - 11:42am

Mike Garcen

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Joined: 1 Oct 2006

if your courageous enough, just stripe the hard drives, make one large fast 800gb hard drive, and pray nothing bad ever happens cuz it'll wipe all your info

Mike Garcen (shadymg) MissingRemote Editor-in-Chief Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP (formerly Media Center MVP) Twitter @mikegarcen MissingRemote on Facebook

Fri, 02/02/2007 - 11:50am

George Schmauch

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Joined: 21 Dec 2006

I think shadymg said it more bluntly than I did, but that's the point I was getting at, too. ;D

It's a big risk. You'll probably never see a benefit to striping the drives. HTPC's don't need super-fast drive access like servers. But, you'll definitely see the down side at some point, whether that's a drive failure or when you decide to upgrade the motherboard and find out you have to wipe the drive to do it.

Fri, 02/02/2007 - 12:24pm

waicool

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Joined: 30 Sep 2006

I've got a server with 7 hard drives (data only), all of my systems (clients and server) have separate discs for os. I do not use raid and found it to be more hassle than anything. I spend a small amount of time organizing my recordings on the many discs i have (one for music, one for music videos, one for tv shows, one for dvd rips, etc.). This works great for me and i never have to worry about drive failure. I set one drive up for my beyondtv recordings and when it starts to fill up, i simply move data around. If any of my operating systems goes haywire, i simply reinstall the os (1 hour). If you can avoid raid, do so. My 2cents. BTW, i use s.m.a.r.t. to monitor the health of my data drives and replace them when it says so (speedfan, a free download, does the s.m.a.r.t. analysis for me.)

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Fri, 02/02/2007 - 12:33pm

Tim A

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Joined: 9 Oct 2006

Since you will only be using two drives, you can't use RAID 5 (minimum of 3). Mirroring provides redundancy but you don't need that either. So you're left with striping. Since you don't need the performance gains from striping, and the downside of losing all data if either drive dies, then I would just use JBOD, or in Windows there's also a tool that you can use to make windows think it's only one drive. This is the route I would go so that you still get the benefits of having a single drive letter for your recordings or whatnot, but you don't have to worry about losing everything if either drive fails (only half of it ).

HTPC addict

Fri, 02/02/2007 - 5:42pm

orto

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Joined: 2 Oct 2006

Thanks for the replys, all very good points.

Lothar do you remember the name of the software tool that makes windows think it´s only one drive, I´d really like to try this method. I´m not corageous enough to stripe the disks

Fri, 02/02/2007 - 6:36pm

Tim A

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Joined: 9 Oct 2006

I hope someone can help me out here... I've only heard about it. I do all my work in Linux so I'm not even sure where to look... I think if you right click on "My Computer" and hit "Manage" it's somewhere in there, but I'm not 100% sure...

HTPC addict

Fri, 02/02/2007 - 9:03pm

#10

Blue

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Joined: 2 Oct 2006

It was noted above that you'll need another 400 GB drive for RAID 5, and really RAID 5 is the only RAID configuration that is useful for an HTPC. I don't really think RAID 5 will give you much more performance (it doesn't for me at least). It also doesn't provide a backup of your files. If you like the idea that your files will still be accessible even after a drive fails, then maybe RAID 5 is for you.

I think what Lothar is talking about is Dynamic Disks. There is a TechNet article about it here. The article does note that if one drive fails, you'll lose all data.

Sun, 07/01/2007 - 8:42pm

#11

ScarletGrayFire

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Joined: 17 Jan 2007

If you need data insurance, buy an 80GB system drive for $45 and then mirror your two 400GB drives. You can also store an image of your system drive on the RAID set for easy restores when necessary. I'm currently weighing this type of set up against buying an external backup drive.

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Mon, 07/02/2007 - 5:55pm

#12

Apap

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Joined: 18 Mar 2007

Another non raid user here. After recovering from a failed stripe array last year that was it. I did not see any real speed benefit so it was not worth the risk taken. It did refresh my backup religion though.

increased WAF= MoonOwlsMajic.com

Mon, 07/02/2007 - 7:37pm

#13

jcurry

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Joined: 7 Oct 2006

Call me silly, but I have two RAID sets on my system. My OS and and apps are on two mirrored 160GB disks. My media is on two mirrored 500 GB disks. I figure some day I'll add two more 500 GB disks and migrate the larger array to 1.5 TB RAID 5.

I bought into the capacity expansion and raid level migration deal... but I'm almost certain I'll regret it.

The raid sets cover single point failures on the drives, but what about the chipset, mobo, etc? and the software tools?

This was probably a poorly thought out decision on my part... but I got it now... maybe I'll be lucky.

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 10:31am

#14

George Schmauch

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Joined: 21 Dec 2006

Just in case you didn't read it, my blog has a note about my recent RAID 0 array failing.

I've actually been meaning to get rid of the RAID 0 array for quite some time (~2 years), but it's not easy when the OS is installed on it. This is also the reason I will never use a motherboard's RAID capabilities for anything other than RAID 1. You may never be able to get that RAID working again if the chip fails. You have a pretty good chance of replacing a RAID card, though.

Personally, I think the best solution is a RAID 1 (mirror) for the OS and applications and RAID 5 or 6 for media. RAID 6 is basically RAID 5 with a second drive used for parity, which gives you the ability to rebuild even if you've lost 2 drives.

Tue, 07/03/2007 - 12:36pm

#15

George Schmauch

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Joined: 21 Dec 2006

Quote:

Just keep the lights turned down, and no one will notice. Ever wonder what those movie theater seats look like with full lighting?

Great setup, btw.

Umm... wrong topic? Did you mean to reply to this one? ;D

Wed, 07/04/2007 - 2:40am

#16

Blue

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Joined: 2 Oct 2006

Yep, sorry. That's what happens when you get distracted. :-[

Wed, 07/04/2007 - 11:23am

#17

Ugadata

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Joined: 3 Mar 2007

I used to run a raid 0 setup with 2 250 GB drives, I stopped because the capacity of the raid set (500 GB) out paced my ability to back it up easily or quickly. It should be noted that raid, in any of its forms, is not a backup replacement.

I am not against raid, I still have a striped set but it is much smaller in size just so I can back it up to a single off line drive (external USB). Striped drives mean twice the chance of something going wrong. Mirroring is a band-aid in case of a single drive failure, but the cost is twice as much for the same amount of storage. Raid 5 is sorta the best of both worlds, larger capacity without as much overhead, but it is still a band-aid. Raid 10 is the most expensive but you could lose 2 drives (as long as it's the right 2 drives) and still be OK. But it all still comes back to, raid is not a backup replacement, it's a way to get greater capacity then what a single drive offers and/or in case of a single drive failure, keep limping along until repairs are made.

Unencumbered by the thought process!

To Raid or Not to Raid

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