Network switch for whole home A/V

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Fri, 07/01/2011 - 1:53pm

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Joined: 22 Jun 2011

This is an extension of my post on building a second htpc:

After I finish my new computer, I will have two hard wired computers, a hard wired Xbox, a hard wired bluray player, a wifi media streamer, two wifi laptops, and two wifi smartphones on my home network.

I currently have a basic N band Belkin wifi router that I have been pretty pleased with for the last two years. I would like to optimize the speed of everything, since I've noticed the speed of the wifi internet gets slowed down when my extender is actively streaming live tv.

I know the logical thing to do is keep my router for the wifi devices, but I am unsure exactly how to integrate that with a gigabit switch. Networking is by far my weakest pc area. I have found many different things online about what exactly I need and how to hook it up.

Can somebody

1) recommend an inexpensive gigabit switch that will allow me to route all those devices through my new house (I am laying ethernet cord down this weekend). I don't want any more features than I really need, since I won't know how to use them.

2) I need to know how to wire everything together. From what I've read, I will plug all the gadgets into the switch, and then connect one of the open ports on the switch into one of the router's pc ports. Is this accurate? Is there a better way to optimize internet speed to the devices while allowing wifi access?

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 1:58pm

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

How many ports do you need?

Based on the number of ports I would recommend either a HP Procurve (Unmanaged) or Dell (Web managed)

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:02pm

(Reply to #2) #3

pittsoccer33

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Joined: 22 Jun 2011

Why do you recommend those over, say, monoprice's $25 one? I understand there is probably an element of "you get what you pay for" but I guess my problem is that I don't know what I need to be paying for.

I'll NEED four ports. 5-10 would give me room to grow.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:06pm

(Reply to #3) #4

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

If you use a HTPC and extender you definitely want something better than the Monoprice or Linksys. Most 1st and even 2nd generation consumer Gigabit switches are absolute crap. Even worse when you use mixed network devices like a Fast Ethernet based Xbox. You would get better performance from a Fast Ethernet only switch.

Based on as little budget as possible I would recommend the HP J9559A#ABA V1410-8G

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:10pm

(Reply to #3) #5

George Schmauch

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Joined: 21 Dec 2006

Michael's big on the enterprise hardware. Personally, I say just pick up a somewhat cheap Netgear, like this one. Or two of them. I have two in my attic for my media closet and they work just fine.

Server: WHS, SuperMicro dual Xeon X7DWE, 1 x Xeon L5410, Thermalright HR-01, 4GB Crucial ECC, 8 port PCI-X SATA, 4 port RocketRAID 2300, 5x1 PortMultiplier, Corsair HX1000W PSU, Lian-Li PC343B case [blog]
Storage: 2 x Addonics 5-in-3 bays, 13TB
Client: SageTV 7, Windows 7 64-bit, Foxconn G9657MA-8EKRS2H, Core2Duo E6600, Zalman CNPS7500, 2GB Corsair, 320GB, HIS ATI 4650, Antec Fusion [blog]
Tuners: 2 x HD-PVR (serial control), 2 x HDHR, USB-UIRT

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:10pm

(Reply to #3) #6

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

The primary reason you'll want a decent\good switch is to handle negotiating varying network device speeds. Yes, you can turn on flow control on the network cards but even that doesn't compensate for the issues you'll see.

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:11pm

oliverredfox

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Joined: 30 Nov 1999

Be sure that all your wires are Cat 6 (or Cat 5e)

You'll want to decide if you want one big switch or a couple small switches. I have a 5-port switch my office and I run a long Cat 6 cable to my living room with a second 5-port switch.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:13pm

(Reply to #6) #8

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

skirge01 wrote:

Michael's big on the enterprise hardware. Personally, I say just pick up a somewhat cheap Netgear, like this one. Or two of them. I have two in my attic for my media closet and they work just fine.

That is only $15 saved compared to the product I mentioned

Netgear is one of the better "cheap" gear as they also make some Enterprise level switches.

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:21pm

(Reply to #9) #9

George Schmauch

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Joined: 21 Dec 2006

I just did a quick search on them and came up with a 24 port for ~$200, so I didn't know if they even made smaller ones. So, I was trying to save him $80.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:29pm

(Reply to #10) #10

pittsoccer33

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Joined: 22 Jun 2011

Thanks for all the responses. Since TGB shut down I've been on my own trying to troubleshoot.

Like I said, I don't want to screw with settings on it more than I have to, I just want it to work the way my current wifi router does: plug the devices into it and they all have access to the internet/to each other.

Just say for the sake of discussion I go to Best Buy tonight and buy their most basic 8 port gigabit switch. How will I connect everything to it, and what about it is going to disappoint me and make me wish I had bought a better one? What is it about the Xbox's non gigabit connection that will cause a problem, what types of issues would they be?

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:33pm

(Reply to #11) #11

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

pittsoccer33 wrote:

When using ANY Windows Media Center Extender (and\or any 100Mbps device) you may get poor performance. On the Xbox that means stuttering video, connection failures, etc.

See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929707 for some of the issues and fix. The fix on the network card can cause other issues so I personally recommend fixing it by getting better hardware.

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:34pm

#12

Ugadata

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Joined: 3 Mar 2007

If you don't mind buying on EBay ....

Dell PowerConnect 2708 eight port gigabit switch. Can be managed or unmanaged. Expect to pay $40 to $60 dollars not including shipping.

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Dell...

The newer version of this switch is a 2808 and is currently priced at ~$120 on the Dell website.

Nothing wrong with the HP Procurve either, I just don't have any experience with them.

Unencumbered by the thought process!

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:37pm

(Reply to #12) #13

pittsoccer33

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Joined: 22 Jun 2011

Are there switches where some of the ports are 1000Mbps, and other ports are only 100Mbps? Would a higher quality one allow you to select the max speed of the port?

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:38pm

(Reply to #13) #14

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

The Dell PowerConnect 2708 and the HP Procurve are very similar when in unmanaged mode. The HP firmware is a little better but the Dell hardware is better. I wouldn't buy networking equipment used though unless it came with the original warranty. One of the things I love about HP and Dell is that they have a lifetime warranty behind the switches....but it isn't transferable (at least last I looked)

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 2:39pm

(Reply to #14) #15

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

pittsoccer33 wrote:

Are there switches where some of the ports are 1000Mbps, and other ports are only 100Mbps? Would a higher quality one allow you to select the max speed of the port?

There are unmanaged switches that have mixed ports but I don't recommend them. Typically those are larger Enterprise switches that cost quite a bit more.

And yes, higher quality managed switches allow you to set the port speed.

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 3:05pm

#16

Aaron Ledger

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Joined: 6 Aug 2010

Regarding setting of port speed manually, please only do this or consider this if you know exactly what you are doing.

Senior Editor | @swoon_

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 9:31am

(Reply to #15) #17

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

mikinho wrote:

Don't want to hijack, but related ...........

For YEARS I've been struggling with Bluray stuttering.

"Latest stuttering hardware"

Server: WHS2011, i5-650, 8GB, intel MB & NIC, 7 2TB WD EARS for Bluray w-MyMovies/TMT5, DriveBender Beta
HTPC: Win7Pro 64,i7-2600K, 12GB, intel MB & NIC, OS on SSD
(so should not be the hardware)
Switch: D-Link DGS-1024D Gear on switch: Server, HTPC, Router,modem, Squeezebox Duet, 2 ea HDHRs, ,Onkyo 3008, 2 Xbox 360 extenders, Battery Back up.

All gear rackmounted, so no long runs from switch for AV gear

HDTV doesn't stutter (HTPC & Xbox extender), but I do get the "occasional network error" on the xbox 360

I've continually upgraded/changed gear software, cables, network throttling, you name it!

The only thing I haven't changed is the EARS drives and the SWITCH.

So before I spend more on a new switch, any other things/settings to try?

I know, no guarantees, but would the "PowerConnect 2816 Switch" help, is the "D-Link DGS-1024D" that bad?

Tired of spending cash on solutions that don't work.

Thanks,

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 9:42am

(Reply to #19) #18

Aaron Ledger

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Joined: 6 Aug 2010

Is the stuttering intermittent or always present on Blu-ray playback?

Spec-wise, that switch is pretty decent. Some of the smaller consumer-grade switches only have in the neighborhood of 100-150kb per port memory.

Do you have multiple reads and/or writes hitting the EARS drive at the same time?

Senior Editor | @swoon_

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 9:49am

(Reply to #20) #19

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

swoon wrote:

Is the stuttering intermittent or always present on Blu-ray playback?

Spec-wise, that switch is pretty decent. Some of the smaller consumer-grade switches only have in the neighborhood of 100-150kb per port memory.

Do you have multiple reads and/or writes hitting the EARS drive at the same time?

stuttering is intermittent (sometimes it "seems" to get worse the longer into the movie I get).

Do you have multiple reads and/or writes hitting the EARS drive at the same time? No one movie at a time on HTPC and no ripping, or other hitting the drives. No drive balancing with DriveBender, so .......... just the movie while playing!

No ShowAnalyzer right now on HTPC or Server.

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 9:54am

(Reply to #21) #20

Aaron Ledger

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Joined: 6 Aug 2010

Before you think about replacing your switch, you should hook your server directly to your HTPC and see if the problem still occurs.

Have you tried monitoring performance activity on the server while play back ensues?

Senior Editor | @swoon_

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 9:59am

(Reply to #22) #21

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

swoon wrote:

Before you think about replacing your switch, you should hook your server directly to your HTPC and see if the problem still occurs.

Have you tried monitoring performance activity on the server while play back ensues?

No haven't tried those options, will try to get to it today. Would I need a crossover cable for a direct connect? Networking is my weakest link (no pun intended! Well maybe a little!)

Thanks,

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 10:01am

(Reply to #23) #22

Aaron Ledger

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Joined: 6 Aug 2010

If you're using Gigabit, no. The ports will auto cross as needed. Otherwise, you will need a crossover.

Senior Editor | @swoon_

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 11:43am

(Reply to #24) #23

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

My Resources streaming a Bluray

HTPC

Server

Would think I'm doing okay?

And this is with a HD channel playing on the extender and one recording (same channel, ceton)

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 11:57am

(Reply to #25) #24

Aaron Ledger

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Joined: 6 Aug 2010

Was there stuttering of Blu-ray stream during this time period?

Did you cease blu-ray playback before taking the screen capture on the server? I ask because disk and network usage fall off about halfway through the graph.

Senior Editor | @swoon_

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 12:25pm

(Reply to #26) #25

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

swoon wrote:

Was there stuttering of Blu-ray stream during this time period?

Did you cease blu-ray playback before taking the screen capture on the server? I ask because disk and network usage fall off about halfway through the graph.

Haven't seen any stuttering but HTPC is in another room so only seeing parts of it thru doorway/opening.

No the bluray was playing the whole time. Still is.

Thanks for helping

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 1:13pm

(Reply to #26) #26

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

swoon wrote:

Was there stuttering of Blu-ray stream during this time period?

Did you cease blu-ray playback before taking the screen capture on the server? I ask because disk and network usage fall off about halfway through the graph.

Same movie, same seesion/play of movie

2nd set of shots

HTPC

Server

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 1:20pm

#27

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

What Intel drivers are you using? Make sure you have latest from Intel, not Windows Update. And when installing on your HTPC, if you have extenders make sure to uncheck "Advanced Networking Services".

Are you playing back from BDMV or ISO?

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 1:36pm

(Reply to #29) #28

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

mikinho wrote:

Are you playing back from BDMV or ISO?

All BDs ISOs. All drivers are from intel site (unless MS update sneaked one past me).

I have extenders, where is the "Advanced Networking Services", in the NIC setup, under advanced properties? (I'll go looking). It's never worked with any driver, but I update intel drivers about every 4-8 weeks on both machines.

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 1:46pm

(Reply to #30) #29

Michael Welter

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Joined: 19 Mar 2007

Glitchy wrote:

All BDs ISOs. All drivers are from intel site (unless MS update sneaked one past me).

Advanced Network Services is an option in the driver MSI when first installing. When it is installed it can caused Extenders to disconnect in some cases, that is why I mentioned.

What virtual drive software are you using? If you are using VirtualCloneDrive do two things:

1- Make sure you are on the latest version, currently 5.4.5.0

2- Turn Buffered I/O on.

Note: When enabled, Buffered I/O, will use the native file system buffer for the ISO. This consumes more memory and CPU but helps with network usage. I don't recommend using if the majority of your ISOs are local.

Mikinho | Missing Remote | Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 1:47pm

(Reply to #30) #30

Aaron Ledger

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Joined: 6 Aug 2010

Have you ever played with the transmit and receive buffers in the Intel drivers? When I used to run a HDHR, I found that by tweaking the receive buffer higher to 1024 and using "Extreme" for Interrupt Moderation, I was able to eliminate recording glitches on a machine.

This was a bit of a different scenario as the HDD I/O seemed to be the problem and by increasing the buffer size, I apparently was able to give enough time for the I/O bottleneck to dissipate and buffer to be serviced.

Senior Editor | @swoon_

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 2:15pm

(Reply to #32) #31

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

My last post went to spam filter, I'll wait and see if it shows! 2nd one today! Must be because I changed my user name and started a new account

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 2:49pm

(Reply to #33) #32

Glitchy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2011

(Short version/rehash of my spam filter post)

Already using VC I/O buffering.

No changes to NIC Properties.

Recently trying to fix stuttering, I made a changes to the Registry setting under network throttling and gave playback an "8" priority.

But stuttering before that.

The only constant 7 ea 2TB EARS drives and the SWITCH. (The 1.5 TB EARS drives with DVD, Music and data do fine, but I realize, lots less data)

Jeff

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 4:12pm

(Reply to #34) #33

Aaron Ledger

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Joined: 6 Aug 2010

I recommend you try cabling direct from server to client to eliminate any external network influences and see if the problem still exists. If it does, try setting NIC Interrupt Moderation on the client to "Extreme" and increase the client NIC Rx buffer to 1024 to see if that has any affect.

Senior Editor | @swoon_

Network switch for whole home A/V

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