Installed Vista on HTPC - My Thoughts & Problems

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Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Installed Vista on HTPC - My Thoughts & Problems

I installed Vista yesterday on my HTPC.  My previous installation of XP went "kaput" Monday afternoon when I started trying to update the video drivers.  I kept trying to find a version that didn't have a "rolling screen" after I updated and somehow XP got messed up.  I kept getting a "RegPerm Writer" error when I tried installing any ATI drivers (probably anything else, too).  I did a restore point before I got started, and I was able to use it once, but after a while I tried to restore back again and it was gone.  I also couldn't go back to any time before Monday.  I tried installing SP3, but in the end it would uninstall and say it couldn't be installed.  Then I tried updating to Vista; that didn't work either.  In the end, I'd have to choose "Previous Windows Installation" and once XP booted it would say that Vista could not be installed.  So I was left with no choice but to install Vista from scratch instead of upgrade.  However, I didn't do a clean install, but maybe I need to; more on that in a minute.

With Windows 7 just around the corner I know it's kind of late to be talking about Vista as an HTPC, but here's what I found.  If you remember, I was on a quest at one point to find a solution to using SPDIF and analogs at the same time without using 2 sound cards.  Turns out, in Vista I'm able to do this pretty easily.  I have Vista set to 5.1 and the sound card's utility to use SPDIF.  I can switch my receiver back and forth and sound plays through both.  That part is pretty nice.  Also, in XP using SageTV I was never able to use VMR9 as a renderer without problems, so I had to use Overlay.  In Vista, what little bit of OTA HD I got to watch, I was able to use EVR in Sage and it seemed to work fine.

Everything was not peachy however.  For some reason, later last night I was not able to tune in any OTA HD channels.  I kept getting a "No Signal".  But switching over to my DirecTV receiver, I wasn't having any signal problems, so I don't know why one was able to tune in the channel and the other one wasn't.  I've never had that problem before; usually if my signal's bad then I can't pick it up with either (and I'm not talking about a borderline signal strength; my meter on DirecTV was showing an 80-some% signal).  When I first got Vista going and SageTV installed and set up, the HD channels were doing fine.  I tried playing some of my HD recordings from my previous incarnation of HTPC; with Cyberlink as the decoder, the screen was black but I could hear sound.  With the Microsoft decoder, the picture would come up, but was still while the audio kept going.  With the Sage decoder, the video played very jerky while the sound kept going.  When it was working earlier in the afternoon, I was using the Microsoft decoder as I hadn't yet installed PowerDVD.  I don't know if that had anything to do with it.  I don't think so, because as I think about it, we were able to watch some of American Idol on the PC with Cyberlink as the decoder until it just froze (after that point it claimed I didn't have a signal).  As I tried different recordings that I had I found something odd; most of my recordings consist of Chuck, Hereos, a couple of CSI, and Fringe.  All of the Chuck, Heroes, CSI episodes played as I described above.  Fringe played fine.  Now think about it, what do those first 3 shows have in common vs. Fringe?  All 3 of those others are 1080i; Fringe is in 720p.  Maybe that's a big coincidence, but could that be it?  All of my SD recordings made through the S-video played fine as well.  Another problem was that the guide didn't download for SageTV even though I set everything up and picked my location and all of that stuff.  At first I thought maybe it'd take a while, but as of 10:00 last night (and I started around 5:00) everything still said, "No Data".

All of that stuff was using SageTV.  Before I went to bed I was curious as to how VMC would do.  I went through the set up first; all of that went OK.  After I was done, I tried playing one of the recordings that I mentioned above; they would not play.  I tried seeing how it would do with an mkv, as I had installed Haali Media Splitter; it said I did not have the available codecs to play the file.  I then tried to set up the tuner.  It said there was no tuner found.  I was using my VistaView DA-1in1-I.  I assumed this tuner was supported since I know that it works in MCE XP.

Other things I got, several times while having SageTV open I'd get a message saying I was running low on memory.  While trying to run VMC, I got a message several times saying the receiver had stopped working; I assumed it was talking about the IR receiver but I was always able to use the remote so I don't know why it thought it wasn't working.  I noticed while playing a bluray and trying to do something else, the movie video would pause for a few seconds and then catch back up.  I defintely think I need to upgrade my RAM from 1gb to 2gb.  I noticed the hard drive was constantly churning the whole evening it seemed.  Do you attribute that to the RAM or do you think something else was going on?  Any thoughts on all these problems I mentioned?  What kind of stuff do you install after the OS and drivers?  I like to keep things to a minimum.  I still could not get SageTV to play an mkv with 5.1 sound, but it should be able to, right?  Do you think I need to do a clean, clean install by reformatting the drive and then installing Vista?  I'm thinking some of that lingering stuff from the previous XP installation may be doing something, because all it did was put that stuff in a folder.

Thoughts?

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Joined: 8 Jan 2007

well the `1 gb is a clue, don't now  your specs but the more the merrier

problem with vista is and will always be support, clean perfect support is still all to rare, or nonexistent with older hardware. Sound is a problem.

i run vmc 64bit on a athlon 4850e with amd 780g video, all is well, biggest problem i have is that my server craps out on a regular basis which is not a vista issue

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Joined: 12 Aug 2007

So I did a complete clean install of Vista last week and I'm still kind of experimenting and evaluating.  After almost a week here are some of the things that I've found.

1.) The video quality looks a little better.  I guess I can attribute this to being able to use EVR instead of Overlay.

2.) Finally!  I can stop using 2 sound cards.  My whole wanting to use SPDIF and multichannel analog at the same time is finally fixed.  How come no one told me this wasn't a problem in Vista?  Who were the ones who said they didn't think it was possible?  From what I've seen it's application controlled in Vista, regardless of what Vista's default audio is set at.  Right now it is set on "Speakers - Realtek audio" and configured for 5.1.  In PowerDVD I choose 6 channel audio.  But in SageTV I choose the Realtek digital out as the renderer and it plays through the spdif.  But in experimenting I found it also works the other way.  If I set Vista's default to "Digital - Realtek", I can still set PowerDVD to use 6 channel audio and it will play through the analogs.  I think I finally have some playback issues solved.  I have PowerDVD Ultra 7.3 installed using it for HD DVD; I didn't update it all the way up because somewhere along the way the audio sync gets "broken" for HD DVD playback.  I have PowerDVD Ultra 9 installed to play blurays and can keep that updated for newer blurays without breaking the audio for HD DVD.  I have 7.3 set to use SPDIF and 9 to use 6 channel.  Very cool.  Haven't tried a bluray since putting 7.3 on (I used to get conflicts when I had 7 & 8 installed together).  If anyone knows how to keep 7 from launching when a bluray is inserted, let me know.

3.) I keep getting an error message that pops up saying "Windows Media Center Receiver Service has Stopped".  I don't know why it's doing this, so if anyone's seen this and fixed it, let me know.  Did some research on it and all I came up with is it may have something to do with recently installed software or something.

4.) When I try to use Media Center and set up the TV, I get a message saying that no tuner hardware was found.  Both of my tuners show up in Device Manager and both work well in SageTV.  When searching for a info on the problem listed above in #3, I found others mention this problem as well.  Evidently the 2 are related.  When I first saw #3, I thought it was referring to the IR receiver, but apparently not.  The Vistaview tuner was detected just the other day because I was able to run the setup.  That's when I was reminded that there was a "sub-channel problem" with Vista.

5.) One random problem I came across was Saturday night I recorded a show from the s-video input in SageTV.  Sunday morning when trying to play the recording, I found that the show was like it was in fast-forward and it had no audio.  I had not tried analog TV like that before, but I did do some today and it did not exhibit that type problem.

6.) A problem that it did exhibit when I tried viewing live TV from S-video was that the video was blank and the audio was a loud squeeling-type sound.  I restarted the PC and afterward it did not have this problem.  I believe this may be related to using "Sleep" mode.  The PC had been in sleep mode over the night.  I believe I had this problem earlier in the week and a restart solved it then, too.  Today, I set the Power Options to be "Always On".

7.) The strangest problem is the play back of video.  My recordings from the previous installation are all saved on my USB hard drive.  If I try to play any of those HD recordings in Media Center, they will not play.  This is very much like the problem I described with my son's PC a couple of weeks ago; his, too, will not play back the recordings that I had on my HTPC (and that was before I reinstalled with Vista on the HTPC).  Like his, I can play SD recordings that were made from satellite.  On his, I can play anything as long as I use TMT.  I cannot play those files on my HTPC with any program except for SageTV.  SageTV will play them fine.  But this used to not be the case when I had XP on the HTPC and before I changed the hardware in his PC.  I was able to share all of my recordings with his PC, and the files could be played back in any software player.  What I want to see is if any of the players on my HTPC will play the files that are recorded from now on.

Any thoughts on any of this?  Anyone seen some of these issues?  What do you recommend to install for mkv playback?  If I can get those to play in 5.1 in SageTV maybe I can consider things a success.

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Joined: 14 Oct 2007

I have used Silvan's Vista MCE Install Guide with great success. You might want to start there and tweak for your particular needs. http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/303387.aspx

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Joined: 14 Nov 2006

Your first problem:  Installing Vista on HTPC.

From my horrid experience with vista, I'd recommend either upgrading to win7 RC1 or downgrading to MCE 2005.

MCE2005 was rock solid for me.  It always worked, and worked well.
Win7 RC1 has so far been a big improvement over Vista.  In the 6 days that I have been running it, win7 has already proven to be more reliable and stable than vista.

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Joined: 3 Oct 2006

brdhse1, have you been able to get a HD movie player setup to work with MyMovies or a similar software product? On Win 7?

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Joined: 14 Nov 2006

Meester.Rip wrote:

brdhse1, have you been able to get a HD movie player setup to work with MyMovies or a similar software product? On Win 7?

I don't have a blu-ray drive yet, so I haven't tried.  Sorry.

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Joined: 12 Aug 2007

Since I'm in the early stages of the install (no recordings and few programs), I have contemplated trying the Win 7 beta that I have.  But, in the end, I'm probably going to continue to use SageTV any way, so I'm not too sure the OS really matters any way except for the drivers compatibility.  XP was pretty stable for me, too, but I don't really want to go back now that I've found the sound is acting the way that I want it to in Vista.

One thing that I did notice last night while watching live TV more extensively...my #1 from my previous post is not true.  While watching The Celebrity Apprentice, I did notice that it was exhibiting the same behavior that video I was seeing with SageTV and XP; about the top 1/16 or top 1/8 of the picture was jittery at times.  I have read people mention "tearing", so I don't know if this is what they were referring to, but the problem is definitely still there.  However when I switched to VMR9, I didn't see it do this.  That's OK; if it will be fine in VMR9, I can live with that.

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Joined: 21 Dec 2007

I also have good success with VMC 64bit on a athlon 4850e with amd 780g video, 4GB ram.  I run TMT for my Blurays and that also works well.  My tuners are HD Homerun on my network.    I do  HD OTA, Bluray, and DVDs.  I would say all is rock-solid, except my Harmony 550 has a low WAF due to strange behavior working with the IMON IR rcvr in TMT.

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Joined: 12 Aug 2007

Strangest problem ever.

This problem with PC's not playing HD recordings has been driving me nuts.  I have found that a total of 4 PC's (including my own HTPC) will not play the HD recordings that I do with SageTV.  I have tried numerous players, codecs; I've tried everything that people have suggested, both here and other forums.  I have found VLC and MPC HC will play the recordings.  TMT will play the recordings on my son's PC.  PowerDVD will not play the files on any of the PC's.  None of the "media centers" (VMC, MCE) will play the files regardless of the decoder used.  I was on the verge of giving up, but I think I might've found the answer.  It doesn't make sense, but I think I've found it.

I set up the digital tuner of my HVR-1600 (I normally don't have it active).  At 8:00 on NBC, I recorded My Name is Earl using the Hauppage tuner.  At 8:30 I recorded Parks & Recreation using my normal VistaView tuner.  After 9:00, I went to my main PC and tried playing "Earl" with PowerDVD.  The recording seemed to play fine; I watched a few minutes of the beginning and it was OK, and then I skipped forward some and it played.  Then I tried playing "Parks..." with PowerDVD and it did what I've been having a problem with...it starts for a few seconds and then freezes.  At 7:00, I also recorded part of Wheel of Fortune which was in HD with the Hauppage tuner and then tried playing on my main PC with PowerDVD.  This file played fine, too which caused me to try the experiment at 8:00 & 8:30 between the 2 tuners.

But how could a tuner record better than another?  And we're not talking about signal strength issues.  It's evident to me now that the problem is in the tuner, but it still doesn't make sense.

Why does SageTV play everything perfectly?  If something is wrong with the tuner then it should show up in Sage as well.  But it doesn't.  Even on my main PC, I told you that PowerDVD doesn't play the files.  But I have SageTV Client installed and if I play with that, it plays OK.

Here's some of my thoughts on the VisaView recordings:
Why does PowerDVD not play the files when other players will?  BUT...why will they play in SageTV with Cyberlink decoders???

On my main PC, I installed a standalone MPC HC mpeg2 decoder and made it the default decoder.  In Windows Media Player, using that decoder the file won't play.  BUT...the file plays fine in MPC HC.

On my son's PC, TMT will play the files.  BUT...Media Center won't play the files using Arcsoft as the decoders.

Lastly, as I mentioned in one of my other posts...the problem seems to exist most on 1080i recordings.  The 720p recordings will play even when recorded by the VistaView.  There's no telling how long this has been an issue for me.  I normally only watch HD recordings within SageTV on my own HTPC and occasionally on my SageTV client.  I just happened to find it out when my son wanted to watch a recording of Chuck on his PC a few weeks ago.  I had tried recordings in the past with something like PowerDVD, but they were older stuff and most likely recorded by my Hauppage before I put the VistaView in.

Any thoughts by any one?

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Joined: 27 Dec 2006

Even if you use Cyberlink decoders, you are still using the SageTV deMux (i think it's the demux that sage won't ever swap out). You can't alter this part of the playback chain in Sage. I'd try using Graphedit to piece together different pieces and see if you can narrow down where in the playback chain you have issues.

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

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Joined: 12 Aug 2007

I've done several tests since my last post.  It's the tuner.  I don't know why, but recordings done with the Hauppage play OK on other PC's; recordings done with the VistaView don't.  But they play fine in SageTV.  This one's a mystery to me.

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Joined: 27 Dec 2006

So what I was trying to get at is this...SageTV has tweaked their demux to death to make sure that it can correctly parse every crazy variation of standards/mis-implementation of a standard out there to ensure interoperability with all the different tuners out there. None of the other players mentioned have done this type of tweaking for the outputs of all the different hardware encoding tuners. It is likely that Hauppauge more closely adheres to the common interpretation of a standard, while the VistaView may use some odd options or something (not sure what that something might be, but there are definitely somethings out there).

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

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