Is component video and HD audio over HDMI possible?

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Sat, 08/21/2010 - 12:00am

#1

jbachman2

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Joined: 17 Aug 2007

Is component video and HD audio over HDMI possible?

I just ordered a Onyko TX-SR608 for two reasons:
1. My Harman Kardon AVR630 is on it's last legs
2. I wanted a receiver that could handle DTS-HD and Dolby True HD

Now the problem is that my TV's DVI input (no HDMI on it) does not work. This hasn't been a big deal because I've just been using the component video. So my question is, what are my options for using component video while still getting HD Audio to my receiver? Will a ATI 5xxx video card output analog video while also sending HD Audio to the receiver? I am assuming this is not possible, but thought I'd ask. I've considered the Auzentech sound card that will do HD Audio but I read on their website that it's designed for PowerDVD 9 and I am using TMT3 so I don't even know if this is an option.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Sat, 08/21/2010 - 7:37am

#2

captain_video

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Joined: 6 Jul 2007

Does your receiver have HDMI inputs and component outputs? If so, you should be able to use the HDMI output from your HTPC for the digital audio and video and then have the receiver convert the video to analog and send the output to the TV via component connection. I would think most receivers that have both types of inputs and outputs should be able to convert them to the proper signal if they have the switching capability.

Sat, 08/21/2010 - 1:13pm

#3

Matt

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Joined: 30 Sep 2006

captain_video wrote:

Does your receiver have HDMI inputs and component outputs? If so, you should be able to use the HDMI output from your HTPC for the digital audio and video and then have the receiver convert the video to analog and send the output to the TV via component connection. I would think most receivers that have both types of inputs and outputs should be able to convert them to the proper signal if they have the switching capability.

Nope. upconverting from analog to HDMI is allowed, the opposite is not. It breaks the rules of copy protection, etc. You won't find a receiver that will go HDMI to analog.

Sat, 08/21/2010 - 1:19pm

#4

Matt

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Joined: 30 Sep 2006

jbachman2 wrote:

I just ordered a Onyko TX-SR608 for two reasons:
1. My Harman Kardon AVR630 is on it's last legs
2. I wanted a receiver that could handle DTS-HD and Dolby True HD

Now the problem is that my TV's DVI input (no HDMI on it) does not work. This hasn't been a big deal because I've just been using the component video. So my question is, what are my options for using component video while still getting HD Audio to my receiver? Will a ATI 5xxx video card output analog video while also sending HD Audio to the receiver? I am assuming this is not possible, but thought I'd ask. I've considered the Auzentech sound card that will do HD Audio but I read on their website that it's designed for PowerDVD 9 and I am using TMT3 so I don't even know if this is an option.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Modern graphics cards don't do component output anymore, since HDMI is so common now. So sadly you need to figure out how to get that DVI port working. What TV is it? and why is the DVI port dead? Can you have it repaired?

Sat, 08/21/2010 - 6:13pm

#5

jbachman2

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Joined: 17 Aug 2007

So beyond the Auzentech sound card is there anyother one that does HD Audio? Has anyone tried the Auzentech one with TMT3?

Sun, 08/22/2010 - 7:28am

#6

captain_video

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Joined: 6 Jul 2007

The Asus HDAV 1.3 can bitstream HD audio via HDMI or via analog outputs using the daughter card that comes with the deluxe version. It comes with a special version of TMT2.X specifically designed to work with the HDAV 1.3. I believe TMT3 will also work with it. The HDMI output from your graphics card is routed through the HDAV card and the audio is transmitted via HDMI along with the video signal. I'm not sure if you can use just the audio output without running the video through the card as well. You can check the Asus website for details on the card. There's also a long thread at the AVS Forums that discuss both this card and the newer slimline version.

Mon, 08/23/2010 - 10:40am

#7

jbachman2

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Joined: 17 Aug 2007

I am currently using a Nvidia 9400 GT for video, can I set the card to output both analog video via the component and digital via the DVI connection at the same time? This way I could run the HD sound to the reciever and the analog video directly to the TV. I am probably dreaming this would work and I'd still need an external video switcher for the TV.

I guess I might have to go LPCM for analog HD Audio. I am currently running an Auzentech Meridian (I believe) sound card, would it handle this?

The 3rd option is a new 50" Panasonic Plasma. However, I really don't wanna spend an extra $1000 right now.

Mon, 08/23/2010 - 11:27am

#8

jrandeck

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Joined: 12 Jan 2010

To get audio from the DVI port on your video card (assuming your card supports that) you'll need the adapter made specifically for that card, a standard DVI to HDMI adapter won't work since audio isn't part of the DVI standard, so different manufacturers have different schemes to make that work.

Beyond that, I'd think it should be possible to have both outputs active (as if you have two monitors), but it would probably take some tweaking of settings.

Mon, 08/23/2010 - 11:36am

#9

Daniel Schoerner

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Joined: 27 Dec 2006

jbachman2 wrote:

I guess I might have to go LPCM for analog HD Audio. I am currently running an Auzentech Meridian (I believe) sound card, would it handle this?

I'm running the X-Meridian, and it works almost flawlessly for this. It is very easy to set up.

However, TMT does downsample the audio from 24-bit to 16-bit. I haven't been able to conduct testing anywhere to see if that is something where I can hear the difference. The only way to retain 24-bit audio in TMT is to bitstream to an AVR.

However #2, It looks like about half of the Blu-rays out there, maybe more are only using 16-bit sampling anyways..so for about half your movies you will get the full complete audio signal without alteration using analog. Unoffical Blu-ray AV Specs at AVSForum

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

Mon, 08/23/2010 - 12:10pm

#10

jbachman2

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Joined: 17 Aug 2007

I guess I'll go with LPCM for now as it won't cost me any more money :) I would have tried it with my Harmon Kardon but the on screen calibration died on it along with video switching so I didn't know what the heck else was wrong with it.

Time to order cables from monoprice

Mon, 08/23/2010 - 12:44pm

#11

autoboy

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Joined: 15 Mar 2007

Personally I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between the HD audio and the Spdif. I've tried to blind test it and I can't tell. But, have fun!

Don't spend too much money on it just to get HD audio working on that setup since it is kinda a stopgap measure. A new TV with HDMI will probably be needed sometime in the future and the $ would be better spent on a TV than on an obsolete soundcard.

Mon, 08/23/2010 - 1:11pm

#12

bblake12

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Joined: 23 Aug 2010

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id...

You can use the HDfury to convert your HDMi to VGA/Component, the audio could then be transmitted separately.

Bryan

Mon, 08/23/2010 - 4:40pm

#13

autoboy

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Yes, I forgot about the HD fury. That would work wonders and would probably come in handy sometime in the future after they start blocking content on analog.

Mon, 08/23/2010 - 6:53pm

#14

Matt

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Joined: 30 Sep 2006

autoboy wrote:

Don't spend too much money on it just to get HD audio working on that setup since it is kinda a stopgap measure. A new TV with HDMI will probably be needed sometime in the future and the $ would be better spent on a TV than on an obsolete soundcard.

+1

Tue, 08/24/2010 - 12:20pm

#15

Daniel Schoerner

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Joined: 27 Dec 2006

Actually, my obsolete sound card is what enables me to avoid investing any money in slightly improved receiver after slightly improved receiver. Out of my entire setup it has made my AVR the one thing I don't care about upgrading. If I got new speakers, I might be tempted to add an external amp, but the AVR would still be a completely functional PrePro.

I can always run my video direct to the tv and not have to worry about my AVR molesting it because it supports the wrong HDMI version.

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

Tue, 08/24/2010 - 3:31pm

#16

jbachman2

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Joined: 17 Aug 2007

@NAvlia
How does the sound card enable you to avoid investing money in a slightly improved receiver? I am curious about your wiring of your setup.

I will keep the HD Fury in mind though because even if I upgrade the TV my current TV is gonna end up ...somewhere.

Receiver should be here tomorrow!

Tue, 08/24/2010 - 4:51pm

#17

Daniel Schoerner

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Joined: 27 Dec 2006

In my setup - for almost all my sources - audio goes to the AVR, video goes to the TV. All connections to the tv are HDMI or component depending on the source. All audio connections are analog or SPDIF.

Running video direct to the tv means you can't rely on the AVR to perform input switching by itself, but it also means that when anything changes with regards to my ability to output a video signal I only have to worry about the tv.

Now with the AVR - there are a couple reasons to upgrade:
- More power
- New features

IMO, you are much better off increasing power by adding external amplification. Upgrading from a 90W AVR to a 100W AVR is not going to buy you the headroom of dedicated amplification. Nicely, my older Denon has 7.1 PreOuts. This have since been removed from any Denon model less than $1200 (wouldn't want anyone buying the $379 Denon and adding their own amplification ).

New features falls into two categories for me - Surround format support and other. In Sound formats we have DTS-HD and Dolby True-HD. In the Other category there are things like Audessy EQ.

With a full HTPC running Blu-ray playback I have decoding support for DTS HD and Dolby TrueHD in my PC and can send this to my AVR using Analog out. The same would be possible if you have an old AVR with just HDMI 1.0 or some such. Decode in the computer and output LPCM. None of my other sources take advantage these formats. So no worries there.

These leaves me with Auddessy EQ as a reason to upgrade. It's tempting, but tough to justify considering that that would be the only thing I would get from a new AVR. Theoretically I have Room Correction in Windows 7 - I'm just a little scared of it, and I think one issue is that to use it I have to revert to the Win7 default audio driver. Maybe I'll try that one day and see how it sounds.

As long as I can continue to support new surround formats on the HTPC, there is little value to upgrading my AVR.

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

Tue, 08/24/2010 - 4:59pm

#18

autoboy

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Joined: 15 Mar 2007

He's talking about getting an HDMI equipped sound card. THAT would be obsolete. A good analog soundcard is not obsolete as long as you have a need for analog output. If he wants to go the analog route, then a good ANALOG soundcard would be a good choice, but I would surely skip the extra expense in getting an HDMI soundcard.

The only reason I upgraded my receiver is because I ran out of inputs. I have a lot of equipment because I like to play with new gear and my old receiver could only support 3 spdif inputs and 1 analog input. That's not enough surround inputs for me. The addition of HD audio was also a small factor, but I've since realized I can't hear a difference on actual source material. That's why I'm the resident troll when it comes to HD audio upgrades. I'm so bad that I convert all my HD audio to lossy Dolby Digital at 640K so I can play it on any TV in my house. I can tell no difference in quality of the audio.

Tue, 08/24/2010 - 5:01pm

#19

Daniel Schoerner

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Yes - he owns an X-Meridian

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

Sat, 08/28/2010 - 6:40pm

#20

jbachman2

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Joined: 17 Aug 2007

The Onyko TX-SR608 DOESN'T have the inputs for analog HD audio, it doesn't have on screen setup over component connections (HDMI only). So I basically spend $400+ a receiver that doesn't do anything that my Harman Kardon didn't already do. Hell, at least the Harman Kardon did have the analog speaker connectors so I could have had uncompressed audio that way. Sorry for the rant, I was just really disappointed with the new receiver setup.

Sat, 08/28/2010 - 10:39pm

#21

autoboy

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Joined: 15 Mar 2007

That sucks. Sorry man.

The new receivers are really designed for all HDMI systems.

Did you ever consider something like a DVDO edge? I think the edge specializes in HDMI as well, but there may be other systems designed for component.

Sun, 08/29/2010 - 10:45pm

#22

jbachman2

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Joined: 17 Aug 2007

I'll be ordering a HD Fury 2 this week and a ATI card shortly there after. Was just mad that it wasn't what I thought I was getting.

Mon, 08/30/2010 - 1:30pm

#23

Daniel Schoerner

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Joined: 27 Dec 2006

Sorry to hear that....

Yup, they've ripped out all the analog circuitry on a lot of AVRs to reduce cost. It's no fun.

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

Mon, 08/30/2010 - 3:34pm

#24

autoboy

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Joined: 15 Mar 2007

It's a ton of fun for those of us who are HDMI only. For just $300 you can get a receiver with 4 HDMI ports and HD audio decoding. If they kept the analog circuits, it would raise the price.

For the component crowd who may find this post, it may be better to search in the used AVR market where you can get great receivers that will feature component connections and analog inputs for HD audio. Remember, there is only one current source for HD audio. Blu-ray. So, you only need a single connection able to handle it making those analog ports perfect for the new format, while still allowing your AVR to handle the old lossy DD and DTS codecs for everything else you attach.

Mon, 08/30/2010 - 4:38pm

#25

Daniel Schoerner

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Joined: 27 Dec 2006

Used is a great way to go on a receiver. Looking at some of the brands, if you can find a model from about 2 years back, you can still have your cake and eat it too. HDMI 1.3a with HD audio format support was around, and still bundled with analog in and out, along with Audessey EQ for much less money that on a new AVR today.

My Home Theater, XLobbyMC
To Do: Finish Re-ripping my music collection - While Playing FF XIV

Mon, 08/30/2010 - 5:50pm

#26

autoboy

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Joined: 15 Mar 2007

I think you can go even further back than 2 years. HDMI 1.1 equipped receivers will still support HD audio over HDMI, and if you buy a high end used unit, you could get a very nice amp section in it. It's going to be a better amp than a what you find in today's $400 receivers.

Mon, 08/30/2010 - 7:11pm

#27

htpc_user

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Joined: 12 Aug 2007

I look forward to replacing my Yamaha receiver one day. It has a 5.1 input and digital inputs, no HDMI. I use the analog inputs for watching bluray from the PC and the spdif when watching anything else. I just hate the difference in the volume levels between the 2. I have to turn the volume up more to get to the same level as spdif. The bass is much louder with spdif than analog. As I've been told here before, that's because spdif has a spec for a bass boost.

Tue, 08/31/2010 - 12:42am

#28

Matt

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Joined: 30 Sep 2006

Naylia wrote:

Used is a great way to go on a receiver. Looking at some of the brands, if you can find a model from about 2 years back, you can still have your cake and eat it too. HDMI 1.3a with HD audio format support was around, and still bundled with analog in and out, along with Audessey EQ for much less money that on a new AVR today.

Don't even have to go that far back. My Denon 590 from last summer has component video inputs (that it will cross convert to HDMI, but doesn't upscale, which is nice, since upscaling is where AVRs usually mess up the quality), and of course is HDMI 1.3 and does the HD audio formats. It has the full Audessey MultiEQ suite with Dynamic Volume, etc. It's just missing the multi-channel analog input, which the set-up the 790 has.

I was seeing the 590/790 still around at Fry's and Best Buy earlier in the summer.

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